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Hi fellow hubs,

I’ve been here for a while and I’m starting to feel that the fact that support material is not quoted is causing measurable losses.

In FDM some models don’t need support, but the majority does. Even worse in SLA where everything needs supports and if we consider printers like the Form1/1+/2 it often happens that the amount of material for the support is comparable to the one of the model (even more sometimes if the model is really small).

Until now I never charged for supports. Worst case I made the customer notice that I wasn’t charging for support even though it was a significant amount of material.

How do you approach the problem? Do you charge for support? If so, how do you calculate it?

Similarly, set-up costs are calculated only once. What if the order needs several print sessions?

Look forward to your answers

Thank you

Mario

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Hi @Polariz3d like many other issues with printing Hubs orders, I think the simple answer is that it’s down to you to look at the quoted fee and then negotiate with the customer if you feel it needs modifying. In my experience, all customers where I’ve specified additional charges have been more than happy to pay them, as long as they understand why they’re being charged extra.

I imagine it would be very difficult for 3DHubs to include support fees automatically given how their need can be so variable. For example, you said the majority of FDM models need support, but I would say the minority of the orders I receive need support in any noticeable degree. I also see Simplify3D generating supports where in my opinion they’re not necessary and in most cases those models have printed perfectly without supports.

As I said, the key here is to communicate and negotiate with the customer right from the word go, before the order is accepted.

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Doesn’t 3dhubs already detect model size and sliced volume? The least they could do it put a warning early in the checkout process that for large models with low sliced volume that additional support fees might apply. But I doubt they will do this because it increases quoted costs and probably scares away customers.

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Thank your for your input.

@cobnut Actually it is true that maybe not the majority of FDM models need support, but around half of what I get needs and a smaller percentage actually needs a lot. Of course it depends from the orientation, but “best quality orientation” often needs more supports and it’s in those situations that extra charges really make sense.

@Nova If 3DHubs is so keen to make a customer’s rights statement such as minimum quality and support removal (which I believe is totally fair) they should make notice that extra charges are a reality. Time spent on fixing models, advising customers on small modifications to make it feasible, design (e.g. I have these two models, and I want them stuck together) should not be considered as automatically included. Same for all the support related situations or when there are a lot of parts, but only one set-up fee… If customers are on 3DHubs is because they already made a choice to have it printed here and, honestly, I don’t think they can find a better marketplace or prices than here, surely not with other famous bureaus.

@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx @Marvin Care to give an input on this topic?

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Thanks for all the input (@cobnut, @Polariz3d, @Nova)

Rob from 3D Hubs here. Your concerns are definitely valid. In the near future, we will be integrating support calculation and printability feedback into the ordering process on 3D Hubs. This way customers will have less surprises with the quotes that we’re generating.

Until we’re there, we are working on showing a message to customers that informs them about potential support charges being added to the quote. Right now, we’re showing the following message to 50% of our users:

"Material disclaimer:

  • FDM printers can only guarantee a tolerance up to +/- 1mm (or 1%, whichever is greater).
  • FDM printed models with overhangs steeper than 45 degrees, need support material possibly resulting in additional costs.
  • FDM printed parts are not solid and are printed with 20% infill by default."

We’ll wrap up the experiment once we have enough data to analyze how this impacts customer behavior. When the results are not hugely negative, we will roll it out to 100% of our users.

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That’s super! Thank you very much!!!

Look forward to see these updates and possibly some for resin printing too!

BTW, 3DHubs support No.1!

Thank you again

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Glad to hear that. Creating standards and better communication around Resin is also high up on our list. Can’t give any ETA’s but we’ll definitely post drafts on talk whenever we’ll be changing something here.

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Thanks. That’s good to hear.

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Hi @Polariz3d well, ironically, I’ve just had three orders in a row that need support structures… :slight_smile: Maybe they are more common than I realised, or I simply hadn’t taken note of them.

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I guess that’s a game of chance :wink:

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  • FDM printed models with overhangs steeper than 45 degrees, need support material COMMA possibly resulting in additional costs.
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Simple, straightforward, deadly easy to add… Genius!